EDGE Interview: Director Carl Andress – Working with Charles Busch, 25 Years and Counting

Carl Andress (foreground). Charles Busch in a promotional photo for "Ibsen's Ghosts" in the background. Source: EDGE composite image

For more than 25 years, the theatrical (and celluloid) collaboration of legendary drag actor Charles Busch and director-producer Carl Andress has thrived and flourished. Andress has staged the world premieres of a plethora of Busch comedies including "The Confession of Lily Dare," "The Tribute Artist," "The Divine Sister" and "The Third Story" with Kathleen Turner.

Andress and Busch also co-wrote and co-directed the indie feature film, "The Sixth Reel" in 2021 and Andress co-wrote the screenplay, with Busch, for "A Very Serious Person" in 2006.

Busch's latest stage farce, "Ibsen's Ghost: An Irresponsible Biographical Fantasy," had its world premiere at the George Street Playhouse in New Jersey and is currently playing off-Broadway at 59E59, presented by Primary Stages, through April 14, 2024.

The play stars Busch as Henrik Ibsen's widow, Susannah, who discovers that a former protégée, Hanna Solberg (Jennifer Van Dyck) is trying to sell a scandalous diary that exposes the celebrated playwright's misdeeds and claims she was the inspiration for Nora in "A Doll's House." The nerve! Susannah enlists the aid of a sexy sailor, Wolf (Thomas Gibson), to destroy the diary. The work also features great comic turns by Tony-winner Judy Kaye as Suzanne's stepmom and Jen Cody as Susannah's maid, Garda, who steals her scenes in a manner that must be witnessed.

Andress directs with his usual swiftly-paced style and flair. When he isn't presenting a new Busch play, Andress is planning the summer theatre schedule at the Sharon Playhouse in Sharon, Connecticut where he is Artistic Director. This season he will be directing "The Prom." For more info: https://www.sharonplayhouse.org.

EDGE had a chat with Andress about "Ibsen's Ghosts" and his almost 3-decade collaboration with Busch.

EDGE: Carl, tell me about the genesis and development of this piece?

Carl Andress: Charles and I had done our play, "The Confession of Lily Dare" at Theater for the New City in 2018... Our friends at Primary Stages came to see it and said, can we do this one? And we were like, we'd love to because we'd love to keep developing it. So that is the show that we went into rehearsal with in 2019, and then opened in 2020. And our closing date was March 5, 2020. We closed, loaded out the theater, and everything shut down. It was just insane. During the course of all those early months, we did several Zoom readings and Charles thought: 'Well, that might be my swan song for the theater. It was such a wonderful experience. Just perfect. Maybe I should retire from the stage. And we'll just make movies.' And during COVID, we made a movie called "The Sixth Reel," which we co-wrote and co-directed...

So there's a certain point where the movie is done, and you go, "wow, okay, what's next? "And so then, Charles said, "Well, I think I have another play in me." I replied, "Oh, I thought you were retiring." And he said, "I don't have enough hobbies to retire". So, we were finished with a movie, he was basically finished with his memoir, and so he started wanting to come up with a new idea.

He'd been reading about Ibsen because he loves Ibsen's plays so much. And he said, I've always had this dream of wanting to play an Ibsen heroine, but I don't think that's ever really going to happen. And I said, well, couldn't you write your own play where you just celebrated the themes and certain special moments from Ibsen's various plays? And he thought, "Well, that's an interesting idea...I do have this this idea about taking some characters who are more or less footnotes in the story of Ibsen." That's what intrigued him and so he started imagining what it would be like if he were to play Ibsen's widow.

EDGE: I think the play has something serious to say about the women in the lives of these great men that fall by the wayside.

Carl Andress: Absolutely. And who (is) the inspiration. Charles, as a writer, has always been celebrating women and their contribution in life and in their stories. So, it just makes perfect sense for that to be what Charles picks up on... That's always been at the forefront of his art.

EDGE: You and Charles have been working together for well over two decades now?

Carl Andress: Yeah. We did our first play in 1997. We met in '95, but we started our first real project together in '97.

EDGE: What do you think makes your relationship so successful?

Carl Andress: We're really just so in sync. I was just out of college when I met Charles. And we became immediate friends. I was working backstage as the head of wardrobe on this musical that he wrote the book for called "Swingtime Canteen" and I had talked my way into this job when I first moved to the city... I was so happy to be in a real New York theater. Charles eventually took over from Allison Fraser, who was starring in the show... That's where I first met him. We were the only males on this all-female show, all-female musicians, backstage crew and cast. We started off as protégé/mentor, and friends. Within the next couple of years, we were really focusing on the kind of stories that we wanted to tell. I just totally got into the kind of things that he wanted to do. And then what could I add to the story? (There was) a lot of bouncing ideas off each other...

Whenever we come together to work on a show, it's really just like putting on an old sweater in a certain sense, because it's a real comfortable place to be... We've spent the last 25 years trying to find the balance between playing sincere, honest sentiment and spoof or farce. Can we get away with being really dramatic without being overly melodramatic, depending on the nature of the story that Charles wants to tell as a writer?

EDGE: Is the script still evolving during the rehearsal process?

Carl Andress: Yes. Absolutely... Charles has the play in his bones, in his mind. He knows what he wants to do when he comes in. So, the process is about everybody else... Charles knows what he intends, but can hear what the other actors are bringing, (so) it affects his performance... He becomes even more generous as an author because he's hearing the play. People often say he's the most generous writer because he gives his supporting players so much to do...He think of them as co-stars, that they're all equal. If they get a laugh, it's his laugh. He's not competitive with his cast members, he never really has been, because it's all from his imagination. If they're successful, he's successful. And that's what he's striving for as a writer, and that's what I support him in as a director, as we bring the cast together.

EDGE: Can you speak a bit about assembling this incredible ensemble, Judy Kaye, Thomas Gibson, Jennifer Van Dyke...

Carl Andress: Well, in some cases, Charles writes immediately with people in mind, like Jennifer Van Dyke. It's very much tailored to not just her gifts, but almost who she is, as a person. And then in creating (other) roles we start thinking about who would be the perfect type? Doesn't matter if we know them or not. We both had the idea that Judy Kaye would be really perfect in this. And it was around the time where she had just done "Diana The Musical," playing Queen Elizabeth... So when we started putting the production together, working with Pat McCorkle, wonderful legendary casting director... She's like, 'Oh, I know, Judy, we take the bus together all the time... And Judy said, yes. Judy actually said that she would scrub floors for the chance to work on a play with us! How amazing. And she's just such a wonderful down to earth, great lady. Fun, human, hilarious and full of stories. We just adore her.

Pat McCorkle also suggested Thomas Gibson... She cast him at the very beginning of his career. And he's at a place now where he's wanting to come back to the stage. And the connection was that he had played the leading man in the film version of "Psycho Beach Party," opposite Charles, And for me, I was like, wow, I get to work with Beauchamp Day from "Tales of the City!" How fun... We asked him, and he said yes. So, it's the collaboration with a really good casting director... You want a casting director to get on your page... I'm so glad the Academy is now going to be giving an award for casting, because it's absolutely crucial... they're artists as well.

EDGE: Tell me about your process. Do you work closely with your actors or are you a blocking director? Or a combo?

Carl Andress: I'm a bit of a combination. When I started off early on, I would have a complete picture in my mind of exactly where everybody should move. I was moving Ken and Barbie around my Dream House set, wanting them in very specific places. I learned very quickly that brings out the absolute worst in actors in that it shuts them up, it's shuts them down. They don't feel like they're contributing anything because you're basically not allowing them to express themselves... You can't just choreograph a play; you want to bring them along.

I always start by reminding everybody that what we're doing is called a play and we have to have fun. If we're not having fun how can we expect the audience to have fun? I want as little drama offstage. I want everybody to have a good time. I want people to feel heard, and I want people to feel seen, and that they're contributing. Now I do have veto power, if the idea you bring to the table doesn't quite work, then I'm going to ask you to adjust. But there are no bad ideas... let's be respectful of the process... I've learned over the years that I've got to set up the parameters. I've got to set up the room so that it's a great fun and brave space for actors to come and be vulnerable.

EDGE: Tell me about making that leap to the visual medium of film with both "A Very Serious Person" and "The Sixth Reel."

Carl Andress: Charles had an opportunity to make a short film for Showtime... we had Kathie Lee Gifford, Jim Caruso, Julie Halston, Mario Cantone and little me... Charles showed it to Daryl Roth, who said, 'Oh, I think that's so sweet. If you ever want to make a feature, I'll produce it.' Charles called me, he's like, I don't have any ideas for a movie. But Daryl wants a movie. So, we gotta write a movie together... We had been toying with this notion about doing a movie about film collectors. And we started writing it. By the time we were finished, it was way too long and had so many locations...not an affordable indie film... So we stripped it all down. We got it down to a coming-of-age story about a gay child, which is something both Charles and I could identify with...

The key when you're coming from the theater then working on a movie is to have an excellent director of photography, gaffer and sound team. When you don't know exactly how all of these things and lenses and, and lighting works you've got to surround yourself with people who who've got you, who can trust you, and who you can trust.... I learned that I had a real affinity for staging in a movie. So then, years later, when we had the opportunity to do "The Sixth Reel," we had an agreement with a producer--who tragically passed away six weeks before we started filming, Ash Christian... Our producing team kept us going...but we knew we had to pull together a team who shared our vision... We were very lucky to work with our DP, Jendra Jarnagin... who was, very much, teaching me, I felt like Barbra Streisand with William Wyler on "Funny Girl," just like a sponge, learning, learning, learning But then my ability to work with actors, and speak to actors, in the moment, was really helpful, simply because we shot the whole thing and 15 days, so it's very quick, and you had to move fast.

EDGE: The end result is a wonderful film.

Carl Andress: Thank you so much. We're very proud of it. And that's where we thought, we'll just make movies from now on... We've got a couple of ideas. One is Charles's play "Visitors in the Dark." He turned that into a screenplay... But of course it comes down to money. That's never easy. And the other big dream I have is I would love to make a movie of our play, "The Divine Sister" to be the box set (trio) of "Psycho Beach Party" and "Die, Mommie, Die!" That's a little bit more expensive. Charles screenplay for that is very ambitious. But I hope it'll happen.

This interview has been edited for content, clarity and length.

"Ibsen's Ghost" runs through April 14, 2024. Tickets: for ticket information, follow this link>

For more information on Carl Andress, visit his website.